Grisham and Cox address bipartisanship, finding hope in divided times
The Notre Dame Democracy Initiative hosted Governors Michelle Lujan Grisham and Spencer Cox for a fireside chat on September 19 in the DeBartolo Performing Arts Center, moderated by University President Father Robert Dowd, C.S.C.
Grisham, a Democrat, has served as New Mexico’s governor since 2019, while Cox, a Republican, took office as Utah’s governor in 2021. The talk, titled “Pragmatism Over Polarization,” focused on how Western state pragmatism can serve as a model for the country to overcome toxic polarization. The event occurred in the wake of Charlie Kirk’s September 10 assassination, noted by Fr. Dowd, who praised his guests as “bridge builders” as he and the two governors began their conversation.
“We are all horrified [by] recent violence, some of it political in nature,” Fr. Dowd said. “Of course, we can’t help but think about the assassination of Charlie Kirk. … We also can’t help but think about the murders in Minnesota of state legislators … and of course, last year, the assassination attempt on President Trump. We’ve got to lower the temperature and we’ve got to get to a better place.”
Fr. Dowd then asked the pair about their path to politics. Grisham cited healthcare and senior citizen advocacy as particularly important motivations, discussing how her role in running the state’s Aging and Long-Term Services Department helped launch her career into Congress and eventually the governorship. She recalled criticism from the party for her decision to remain as director of the department for Republican Governor Gary Johnson, which she explained to Fr. Dowd in detail.
“When I did that, many of my Democratic colleagues were mad at me because I wouldn’t, in protest, separate myself from that administration,” Grisham said. “And that’s the most important [administration], because I have to learn how to communicate my priorities in a different way and connect to different policymakers.”
In his response to Fr. Dowd, Cox drew on his small-town roots, having served as mayor and later state representative before rising to lieutenant governor. Now serving as Utah’s 18th governor, he also holds the role of Honorary Chair at Disagree Better, a national initiative dedicated to reducing political polarization. Cox highlighted the group’s collaboration with de-polarization labs across the country, noting their research shows that conversations like these are vital for bridging divides and reducing “thoughts of violence toward the other party.”
Cox argued that bridging partisan divides does not just mean being “nice to each other,” explaining that Americans are supposed to disagree and that such disagreement is foundational to the country. Instead of avoiding debate, Cox emphasized the importance of “healthy tribes” and getting to know people in ways that aren’t explicitly political before engaging with them.
As Cox put it, “It’s really hard to hate up close.”
The conversation shifted to the ongoing redistricting battle between Democratic and Republican governors across the country. Grisham described herself as “worried” about the gerrymandering taking place, believing that the current “tit-for-tat environment” made her state feel “really pushed into a corner.” She added that such an environment was not what the Founding Fathers would have wanted, claiming they would’ve liked to see “more closely aligned candidates” and closer votes.
Cox generally agreed with Grisham’s sentiments, stating plainly his dislike of the redistricting process. He did, however, feel that gerrymandering was not “as big an issue,” arguing that even independent commissions can be biased. He noted that similar amounts of polarization exist in non-gerrymandered bodies, such as the Senate and the governorship.
For Cox, the governor system is particularly special, with American federalism taming the “end-all-be-all” mentality that exists for the Presidency and Congress. He felt that Americans have “forgotten about [this concept] … which has led to the situation we are in now.” Yet despite America’s increasing polarization, Cox said he found hope in his knowledge of history.
“I’m a student of the past, and I know we’ve had dark days in this country … and yet, in every one of those dark circumstances … we found our better angels,” Cox said. “This experiment we embarked on 250 years ago is not over. … At every turn of this great nation, when it got dark, we found the light, we found our way through it, and I believe we can do it again.”
Cox’s optimistic outlook was reflected by RJ Carney, a sophomore from Siegfried Hall. He called the talk “really inspiring,” describing the pair as “confident and patriotic people who cared a lot about helping their constituents.” He added, “they seemed to like each other and enjoyed being around each other, which [Carney] thought was important for people from different political parties.” Knott sophomore Kerry Jiang agreed with Carney, telling the Rover that the conversation showed that “despite political differences, leaders can still find common ground.”
“It demonstrates a commitment to collaboration over division, with a focus on shared challenges and backgrounds,” Jiang said. “Moments like these remind people that we should always target people’s views instead of them as individuals.”
David Murphy is a sophomore from Scituate, Massachusetts, studying economics and political science, with a minor in international security studies. When he is not crippled with schoolwork, he enjoys going on walks and working out in the gym. He also enjoys listening to audiobooks and is currently listening to the memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant. He can be reached by email at dmurph23@nd.edu.
Photo Credit: University of Notre Dame
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